gibson into marshall: attenuator: which is the best?

canrockonthisthing · Tadpole Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: canada

YEAH, chasing...
It is normal, I think. Since I do not hear anymore ANY music the way I used to, I have now different idea than before about sound. And when I'm trying to learn how to play myself, I'm stopping, coz'.... you know.

I am, like many, wasted tons of money and time, searching for instant sound gratification. Bought and sold tooo many amps and guitars.

I ended up with:

Guitars:
Fender 69 reissue, Gibson 56 Goldtop VOS (P90) and Gibson VOS(PAF) 57 Goldtop. I think I can not do better than that.

Amp/cab:
Marshall 30th Anniversary 100W
Vintage Marshall reissue 4x12 loaded Celestions 25W.

I like 4x12 cabs most of all. Well, yes, HiWatts, yes, Vox.... but Marshall is what I've got and I'll use it, for now.

Strings:
Fender Superbullet; Gibson vintage.

I like tones I'm getting out of all these. It is just not classic Rock/Heavy Blues tones I hear in my head.
I'm influenced by Ten Years After, Cream, James Gang Rides Again album, some early Zepp and Sabbath. Deep Purple recordings classic lineup. Grand Funk Railroad too (I know, Farner used Messenger, not Gibson. It is cool, and I think Gibson is close enough , just I am is not that good Embarassed

)

Just want to get THAT tone.

Thanks for asking, I love to talk about my obsession Laughing

owwdatune · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject:

if its usable good tone you're after---you need a low watt amp !!
anything over 18 watts is a waste of time & good money unless you're playing stadiums IMO...save yourself alot of trouble, money and earaches--.get rid of that monster #Scramble

CAFeathers · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject:

OK, that helps. Nice guitars!!!!

Try playing with pickup heights
Try different strings
Try RS Guitarworks wiring kits

Is that amp the JTM100?

NOS tubes will positively improve the tone. An RCA 5751 in V-1 will give you a slightly less gainy blues tone. The 5751 is known as the blues tube.

canrockonthisthing · Tadpole Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: canada

Smaller head? Or little amp with 10 inch?
I tried 10, 12, 12x2, ended up with 12x4...

I'm willing to try again! Are you thinking Vox? Or which one?

I'm trying to get ALL YOUR LOVING/LEMON SONG/BLACK MAGIC WOMAN etc. ...Black Sabbath tone.

In other words, attenuator would not help, I guess, to lower volume of properly colored by Treble Booster power amp.... Crying or Very sad

Well!
Thanks, guys!

I'm through with rewiring and replacements, also I believe now that factory specs are the best. Thanks for comment on guitars - it is a butter to my ego, I can not imagine owning anything else (at this moment Twisted Evil

)!!

Thanks! Good rockin' to all!

SAguitar · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject:

Those are some great guitars, dude! You should put a Tele in there, too, y'know! Pagey recorded a lot with a Tele on the early albums.

canrockonthisthing · Tadpole Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: canada

I used to own 62 reissue Tele. I loved that guitar, but I used Strat all the time... I know, I'm silly. Cool

My friend got mad at me when I sold her.... Laughing

SAguitar · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject:

My first electric guitar was a Les Paul. I got hooked. My second one was a Fender Telecaster, but I was young and stoopid, and I didn't realize what I had, and I didn't appreciate it, so I sold it. That was dumb.

Flash forward 25 years... I built a Telecaster, and now I'm mature enough to appreciate its capabilities. I use it a lot, now. I learn slow, but eventually I catch on! Laughing

canrockonthisthing · Tadpole Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: canada

Someday I'll get myself Tele...
It is gonna be.... 62 reissue again. ...same color, custom shop.

Guitars I once sold: ES335 dots, ES335blocks custom shop - this one I wish I didn't. Gretch semiacoustic, grey color, that one was nice!

And countless others, not worth to mention.... just guitars.

Guitars I'll buy when I'm rich, just... coz'.. ...coz' ...coz' I have to:
Gretch, orange. Rickenbacker... dono which one yet...
So! Counting Tele and ES335 I'm just four guitars short.

(Forgot to mention that I also own Flying V natural, it seats waiting for me in my local store, I did not touched it yet.... crazy!)

And acoustic, 12st Gibson, two Fender basses (I'm buying Rickenbacker PMcCartney next year, it is on order)

It is lunacy, donchathink?

And I'm not a R'n'R Star yet, just trying to learn, you know! #Mad

What's missing in your life?

canrockonthisthing · Tadpole Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: canada

canrockonthisthing · Tadpole Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: canada

Back again!

Small amps are fine and they work. On the market there are many to buy. Brian May was happy with 1W amp and a lot of people told me they use small amps. Surprise! Some small amps sound as loud as 100w or 50w. My Marshall has options 100w, 50w, 25w.

I think I should buy attenuator anyway (stage and home, or recording rooms)

I have found:

Marshall att. - very few people like 'em
Hot Plate - limited appretiation
Dr.Z - very mixed reviews
Weber - overall positive feedback
Ultimate Attenuator - very good revs on Harmony Central and nobody said nothing so far on forums. Are they new and company posted reviews on HC themselves? #Silly

Have anybody tried Ultimate Attenuator company yet?

Thanks again, everyone! Exclamation

reckoning · Not So Newbie Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 9

Well, I'm a relative noob to all this, but I recently purchased a THD hot plate (on the recommendation from JCP here on this site) for use with my Fender Blues Deluxe (reissue). It has various levels of attentuation, ranging from straight through to - 16 db. Along with a bright switch and dark switch.

The thing I've realized with this thing is that you can only soak up so much power without altering your tone significantly. At - 16db, everything changes. At - 12db, it quite good, but I find that at - 8db, this is where this unit shows it's worth. I can play my amp cranked, and the volume is not mind numbingly loud. Its still way too much for bedroom practical etc, in fact it is great for jamming, as I am enjoying a real saturated power tube tone at reasonable volumes.

I think the answer for low volume practice is to either get a small practice amp, or accept that you'll be sacrificing tone with an attentuator at full setting (at least with the hot plate).

Side note: JCP - I really like the hot plate, and thanks for the suggestion - I've started to jam a bit with a couple friends (quality of musicianship is another matter!!) but I love where the hot plate takes my sound. I'm still searching for a blues type tone (have very little experience here but learning, ever learning), but for hard rock I am loving what I've got right now. The blues deluxe with a V30 speaker, hot plate at -8 db, TS808 with very little drive (say about 15%) and I borrowed a BBE frequency boost (set at about 25 - 30%). With the amp cranked it screams - the tone I'm getting, (particularly in the 10th - 14th fret area where I used to seem to always have areally hollowed out sound) is, for me, unbelievable, and the volume control on the guitar really works to change the sound into a more classic rock sound.

This is all way too much fun! I was over at a friend's place on the weekend - he's a professional musician (bassist) and we played for a bit. Or, he played, and I struggled. Very humbling but this is about having fun......

Canrock, please don't put too much into anything I'm saying here - I have little experience with all the gear, and I have yet to do many comparisons. But its a bit of feedback in any event - I hope its useful to some limited degree......

Hope you find the right combination......

SAguitar · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject:

Reckoning, I'm glad you're getting some tone happening that is sounding great for you! Way to go, and keep at it! Cool

canrockonthisthing · Tadpole Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: canada

Hi, Reckoning!

Thanks for your comment. Very helpful indeed!

I'm going to get Treble Booster, Attenuator AND smaller amp very soon.
(DI/Reamp as well...)

Rock forever!

Much appreciated Cool

JCP · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:10 am Post subject:

Reconing, I'm glad the Hot Plate worked for you.

To those who say attenuators suck tone, you're right. So do master volumes, and...lack of volume in general. What none of those solutions can fix is the fact that at low volume you aren't pushing the speaker (s). But if you've got a big amp that you're having to play quietly, I sure found that at least my 5150 and Marshal TSL 100 sound much better with the power section being overdriven, rather than just the preamp.

When I was a young-un back in the late 70's, the first time I got my Marshall and Hiwatt stacks out into a club, I was floored! They just came alive and had a bark..a woody knock that I had never experienced in our practice space. Of course, it was the fact that I could finally open them up. (We got away with rediculous stage volumes back then. Most soundmen won't stand for that today)

25 years later, I've got about 35% of the hearing in my left ear, and constant tinnitus.

So, to play at home studio or bedroom volumes, there are only a few possible answers. Especially if you use high gain.

I just ordered one of the little, 5 watt Epiphone Valve Juniors. Playing thru it for 5 minutes at GC convinced me I had to have one. Believe it or not, they'll push a 4-12 cab. I played a LP thru it, and it started to break up at about 12:00. There are already mods out there for it, so I'm stoked to start fooling around w/that. I was struck by how many people who reviewed that amp said they were going to buy a second one. For $99 on MF, you could have 3 of them for the cost of an attenuator.

As far as which attenuator is better, depends on what reviews you're reading. My research lead me to the THD. The Weber, in theory, sounded like it could be the best, as it uses a real speaker motor. In the real world, the reviews I read didn't reflect that it worked as well as theory suggested.

Bottom line, we're all looking for something different...what pleases our own ears. Dunno about anyone else, but I'm always looking...still.

SAguitar · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:28 am Post subject:

JCP, sorry to hear about your tinnitus, man that sucks. Somehow, I've avoided that throughout my career. Although at one time I had some doubts. I had just got off the road with a particularly loud band, and when I got an apartment and put my stereo together again, I was not happy with what I was hearing. I couldn't seem to get enough highs dialed on it to make it sound right. So I went to an audiologist and paid the money for the tests. As it turned out, my hearing was fine! The problem was that I was using my floor monitors for stereo speakers, and they didn't have any horns in them. What a Doofus! Embarassed

Let me know what you think of your little Epi Junior when you get it, and what you do to modify it. I've got one, and have been pondering several avenues to pursue on it. Epiphone has just put out a matching cabinet for that little guy that would look real nice under it, making a mini-half-stack out of it!

And yes, in the Tone Quest, the search goes on. I doubt if we will ever get there, but the Hunt is worth it! Cool

Stay tuned,
Stan